In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful
Grande Strategy

Limited & Superficial Comparison of Air Assets of the PAF & IAF

This is a paper to provide a limited comparison of the JF-17 / FC-1 with the Su-30 MKI and to look at Sean O'Connor's analysis to see if in fact, it is a inferior plane that will not stand against the IAF. Sean is a USAF intelligence officer who does some analysis on the side as a hobby and can be found to frequent keypublishing forums as SOC.

To answer SOC's analysis, where the FC-1 / JF-17 is a "tale of an inferior fighter plane", let me first provide the link to his article>> link
Here are some of the salients of SOC's analysis:

The FC-1 will be the primary aircraft for the PAF and the SU-30MKI will be the same for the IAF

This in my opinion is an oversimplification that really takes out the heart of any real analysis of assets. When all is said and done, Pakistan will have 250 FC-1s, Yes, BUT (and there is a big but):

  • Only the first 50 will have the basic configuration, later blocks will be significantly more advanced.
  • Even the first 50 will have a whole host of features, some of them SOC has underestimated. For instance, the radar can simultaneously engage 4 not 2 as SOC mentions. Also, detection range for something the size of an MKI are likely to be a good deal more than 75 kms. Further, data linking between the fighters and with the radar network and AEW assets means this is even greater, particularly as SOC admits, any such scenario would be over Pakistani territory.
  • The PAF is likely to have a 500 fighter airforce and 250 is merely 50% of its air assets. Other assets are perhaps projected to include 100 J-10s and about a 100 more F-16s. While 100 J-10s in my estimate, it makes historical sense as the PAF has typically placed a first order and if they liked the performance, almost always ordered a second batch. You would be hard put to find an aircraft that the PAF liked that they did not order at least (over its lifetime) 100 units of (or wanted to, in the case of the F-16).
  • If seems clear that the J-10 will be focused on countering the 230 odd MKI that India will eventually have. Various interviews indicate this. 100 J-10s reflect a good direct comparison to 230 MKI, given the over all exchange ratio between the larger IAF and smaller PAF. Further, in actual operational service this will actually be even better - the twin engined and maintenance intensive MKI, run by less qualified Indian technicians will generate markedly lower sortie rates than PAF's WS-10A fitted J-10s. This is not bias, but a fact based on the Indian maintenance record.
Superiority of the MKI's PESA radar, with a detection range of 160 Km

  • AEW&C assets will also negate any advantages the MKI has over any potential encounter with the FC-1 / JF-17. When both sides have this, it levels the playing field for the FC-1 / JF-17
  • SOC admits later in his comments section that in fact, detection range of the Bars is (according to Janes, for a 2m squared target), 80-100 km head on. About half what was first estimated, and that assuming a 2m squared target. More probable would be a calculation for 1 meter squared target, and that is being generous, given that the JF-17 is smaller than the F-16, and hides its blades AND has RAM coating.
  • Meanwhile, SOC sticks with 75km as the detection range of the JF-17, for a "fighter sized target". Clearly, for the MKI, specially loaded out for offensive operations, this will be way bigger. Again, assuming that what was originally MY estimate of the detection range is in fact accurate (I actually never said 75 kms but > 75 kms, implying a minimum of, rather than a typical range. Further, given revelation of info on the KLJ-7's surpising modernity and the increased radome size on the JF-17, the point becomes even less arguable).
  • Later blocks of the JF-17 are likely to have an AESA radar

The Bars radar has Jet Engine Modulation (JEM) technology, allowing for a target to be identified at range by simply analyzing the radar returns from the target's engine compressor face.

  • Point is moot when its clear that the FC-1 / JF-17 does not expose its blades AND uses RAM coating, as has been discussed in interviews with officials.
There is also the passive engagement option for the MKI, something else speculated for future FC-1 blocks.
  • One must understand the nature of passive engagements, very useful in less sensor rich environments. Its like putting your torch light off in a dark room. However, of limited importance in a well lit room (sensor-rich environment), one that is likely to be the case given the sheer number of radars, AEW assets and fighters on air in the Indo-Pak scenario. Lets not forget its a lot harder to hide, being the size of an elephant.
Some other issues:

  • The PAF is actively acquiring an aerial refueling capability. Loitering is significantly lengthened for the FC-1 / JF-17 with aerial refueling.
  • Later blocks are likely to be significantly more advanced.
  • The Pakfa and the J-13 are not as far away as some people imagine.
  • Pakistani J-10s will be a step up from the present J-10s and would easily act as force multipliers.
  • Indian MRCA is also to be very seriously considered and countered, so are the present fleet of M-2000s and MiG-29s.
  • Many IAF airbases are within easy range of Pakistani cruise missiles. Remember that the best place to destroy an enemy air force is on the ground..

Ultimately, success in the air will be determined by not only system effectiveness and capability, but by pilot skill, and the parameters of the engagement. That being said, it doesn't help to voluntarily go into a fight with one hand already tied behind your back, does it?
  • As with the above analysis, it seems clear that nobody is going to a fight with their hands tied behind their back, at least not to me.
  • It also does not help going into a football match with half the number the other team has.
  • It also does not help if you never build an industrial base, and are forever tied to importing something vital like a fighter plane from abroad. And being dependent on a backstabbing "ally" that will make you pay for every purchase in blood.

Some other thoughts:

Building the right mix is important. Otherwise one ends up with spending billions of dollars on "some fighter" that is a technological miracle but can only afford - even after being the world's super power - less than 200 of them. Yes, the PAF could have afforded perhaps, 250 J-10s and had 100 F-16s and maintained a 350 plane fighter force against a foe having approximately twice that number. However, numbers do count, as has been observed in virtually every major sustained air war thus far, and the ability to take punishment and continue operating after the typical 2 weeks becomes a major issue, specially in a grand-and-classic scenario like the Pakistan - India duo. This is particularly true, now, given the better coordination, control and the rich sensor environment. All of which allow larger formations to engage on both sides. Imagine titanic clashes to take out major enemy air assets such as AWACS, and massive formations to protect the same.

It must be noted that when I say that the J-10s will be earmarked to counter the MKI, it does not mean that the FC-1 cannot handle the MKI. It is an unlikely scenario that in combat, the FC-1 will shy away from the MKI. However, aircombat exercises in China have shown that the J-10 is ideal at close combat against the MKI. Rather than the argument that the JF-17 is an inferior plane, its really quite a different matter. It is hoped that the J-10s, acting as force multipliers. As in the army, you have the regulars and then you have the elites, it does not mean that your regulars are useless inferior cr@p, nor that you build an army of elites only. Numbers surely count, and its always a general's art in knowing the right balance, knowing how valuable each asset is, and employing them optimally.

The best part of SOC's analysis is the consideration of long range SAMs, these might make things a bit more interesting, particularly for the IAF. This will be particularly true if they are well layered and linked to the overall airspace picture. However, present long range SAMs seem prohibitively expensive and this inevitably means something else might need to be left out.

Continuation of the Debate:
The range for the present Chinese radar is very likely to be more than 100 kms; considering that the PAF chief was comparing with PAF F-16s. The PAF F-16s underwent OCU which increased their range and made it close to MLU (see this)

"The Pakistan Air Force currently has the Block 15 F-16A/B model in operation, which has an upgraded APG-66 radar that brings it close to the MLU (Mid-life Update) radar technology. The main advantage is the ability to use the AIM-7 Sparrow and AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles if they were ever to be released to the PAF. Furthermore, the radar is capable of sorting out tight formations of aircraft and has a 15%-20% range increase over previous models. All the earlier F-16s were brought up to OCU standards and have received the Falcon UP structural modification package."

Consider this bit of information, and also that the APG-66 later modification values are against 1m^2 targets which will be further increased against a significantly greater RCS for the MKI.

Now consider statements made by the PAF Chief about the KLJ-7: is *much better* than their APGs (and these are the upgraded OCU APGs).

Secondly if you visit SOC's old post on FC-1 and see the exchange of comments, one poster pointed out that KLJ-7 beat the Grifo- S and PAF did not lowered their requirements (this includes a link that PAF did not lower it's requirement, and on that is by none other than Richard Fischer :D). SOC in fact commented that it is a very potent radar looking at some mentioned features.

Clearly, the KLJ-7 was chosen over this "very potent radar" and clearly the PAF Chief mentions that the KLJ-7 is "much better" than the present APGs.

One would also want to ask what is the detection range by JET modulation when intakes are hidden and treated with RAM. Why does one poster think it is more important and potent than detection by using returns from the airframe when clearly returns from airframe of a non-stealthy aircraft will be in abundance.

Another assertion made is that the MKI has phased array and JF-17 has Pulse doppler and MKI can avoid JF-17 lock by using doppler notch where as MKI will have no problems with locking on as it's radar is not PD.

This is what is common knowledge at various forums:
1)Doppler notch has been known since time ancient and tactics against Doppler notch were known by USAF even back in Vietnam Era.
2) According to one of the viper pilots at the F-16 forum, they have way more modes on their radars and just by switching to different mode of detection and maneuvering your aircraft so that there is no 90 degrees between both aircrafts this dopler notch could be taken care of.
3)Another aviator said "no modern AI radar is worth it's salt if it can't resist doppler notch"

All of the above should be on F-16 forums if you search "doppler notch"

Here is a link to the dicussion regarding beaming/doppler notch tactic to break lock of a pulse doppler radar.

To me it seems some bloggers out there find it easy to feed garbage to folks thinking they know nothing. With a small Pakistani online community it becomes a recurring problem, yet it seems one would never try this on Chinese posters.
Vision Without Glasses


Joe said...

The comparison of the JF-17 and SU-30MKI is simply silly. They are 2 very different classes of aircraft, and the countries involved will be using the for different purposes. The SU-30MKI is very likely the world's second best fighter plane behind the F-22, and any belief that the JF-17 will match up is delusional.

But that's not what the JF-17 is for - and ACEVAL exercises in the USA where F-5s and F-15s tangled are instructive. The point re: the Saab 2000s at the end is apropos - properly directed, they'll make very useful interceptors, with secondary multi-role capability.

The real comparison is JF-17 vs. Tejas LCA, which will be their competitors on the international market (along with used F-16s, South Korea's T/A-50, and Russia's MiG-29 variants). The Tejas, or its replacement if it fails, will also be the numerical backbone of India's air force.

The JF-17 and Tejas are going to be a very interesting pair of competitors for the lower tier of the global fighter market - which is being abandoned by America and Europe, and has always made up the bulk of global purchases.

Anonymous said...

Saab 2000 "very useful interceptors, with secondary multi-role capability"???

Mirage 2000 maybe?

Saab 2000 is still one of the worlds fastest turbo-props and if you put an Erieye on top you have a world class system.

But to call it a "very useful interceptors, with secondary multi-role capability", now that is simply silly! ;-)

Anonymous said...

On March 23 2007, two JF-17 “Thunder” fighters took to the skies for the first time in Pakistan as a part of the Pakistan Day celebrations. Touted to be Pakistan's first home made fighter, the JF-17 is expected to be the Pakistan Air Force's frontline fighter well into the future. With this article, I’ve made an attempt to examine the JF-17 in the Indo-Pak context. But first, some background information on the program.

The program began in 1986 as the Super-7, when China signed a $550 million deal with Grumman to modernise its fleet of J-7 (MiG-21s manufactured in China under license) fighters. The United States ceased technical assistance following the Tiananmen Square massacre of 1989, and the project almost ground to a halt. However, Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (CAC) managed to keep the program alive with its own resources, as the FC-1. The project got a new lease of life in 1999, when Pakistan and China signed an agreement to “jointly” develop and produce the FC-1 with both countries contributing 50% of the funds. Russia’s Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group provided technical assistance. The FC-1 (Designated JF-17 “Thunder” by Pakistan) was supposed to be a lightweight all-weather multi-role fighter, which would replace Pakistan’s fleet of Mirage-III, F-7, and A-5 aircraft, whose safety record is going downhill by the day. The Pakistani version would sport a Western avionics suite, which included the Italian Galileo Avionica Grifo S7 radar, a variant of which is already in service with the Pakistan Air Force on its F-7 fighters. It would be powered by one Russian Klimov RD-93 turbofan. The “Aviation Week & Space Technology” magazine reported in November 2006 that “Pakistani officials expect the first contract for 16 aircraft (split equally with China) to be awarded next year, with deliveries as early as 2007. A full-rate production contract would follow around 2009. Initially, Pakistan will provide 58% of the parts, but that is supposed to increase gradually to 100%.” The overall Pakistani requirement is expected to be around 150 fighters.

Although the Pakistanis tried to demonstrate with the Pakistan Day flypast that everything was tickety-boo, this is far from the truth. The Western avionics are nowhere to be seen, and supplier decisions do not appear to have been made. Radar integration, a challenging job under the best of circumstances, seems to have run into problems. The task is complicated in no small part by the lack of space available in the JF-17’s radome. It is now widely claimed that the first batch of Pakistani JF-17s will be equipped with Chinese avionics and radar. The weapons package is yet to be finalised. While China is expected to push its PL-9 dogfight missile and the yet untested SD-10 beyond visual range air to air missile, the South Africans have reportedly offered their A-Darter and T-Darter missiles. In January 2007, the head of the Russian Defence Ministry's International Cooperation Department, Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich, announced that Russia had “denied China the right to supply its JF-17 fighter aircraft powered by Russian RD-93 engines to third countries, asking it to sign an end-user certificate for the engines”. In Indian circles, this was taken to be a total Russian denial., a Chinese military website reports that while five RD-93s have been purchased to power the prototypes, an agreement on the further purchase and re-export of the engine is still pending. To make things worse, the Chinese have yet to make any firm commitments, and appear to have lost interest in inducting the FC-1, preferring the more capable J-10 instead.

Given development time-frame and mission profile, comparisons between the JF-17 and India’s “Tejas” light combat aircraft are inevitable. But similarities, if any, are merely superficial. The Tejas, meant to replace India’s massive fleet of MiG-21s, is a wholly different project as far as technology is concerned. Its airframe, made of advanced carbon fibre composites, is light years ahead of the Thunder’s all-metal airframe. The ADA, HAL, and NAL invested considerable time, effort, and resources in its development, and came up with what is arguably one of the finest airframes in the world. The same goes for the Tejas’ aerodynamics which, because of the compound delta-wing, extensive wing-body blending, and low wing loading are superior to those of the Thunder, which has a more conventional layout along the lines of the F-16 and a rejected Soviet light fighter design. As far as flight dynamics and control go, the Tejas, with its relaxed static stability and quadruplex, full authority fly-by-wire digital flight control system, is far more advanced than the Thunder, which still features conventional controls (fly-by-wire exists only for pitch control). The Tejas then, is a state of the art combat aircraft which will be India’s first step towards self-reliance. Program wise, it is more comparable to the Eurofighter Typhoon and Dassault Rafale, considering not just the technology involved, but also the scope of the project. In the light of this argument, its longer timeline is hardly surprising. But the Thunder, despite Pakistan’s best efforts to package it as “indigenous”, is anything but. Pakistan’s contribution to the design and development of the project is close to nothing. Even today, it does not sport any Pakistani systems. It is at best a cheap and low-tech Chinese aircraft that Pakistan can mass produce. As Siva, a contributor on Bharat Rakshak points out, the JF-17 is more comparable to the HJT-36 Sitara intermediate jet trainer – since both have an all-metal airframe, conventional controls, and an externally sourced engine. And the Sitara was developed even faster than the Thunder.

This is not to say that the JF-17 is a bad aircraft. It will serve a very important purpose by giving Pakistan valuable experience in fighter aircraft manufacturing. It will help Pakistan rid itself of dependence on American weapons. It will give the Pakistan Air Force a shot in the arm by beefing up numbers and providing it with decent beyond visual range combat capability. Dismissing it as “worthless” would be nothing short of stupid. My friend and aviation enthusiast Kartik sums it up beautifully: “If the Pakistanis integrate even a medium performance radar and use the SD-10 with it, it is a big threat to the Indian Air Force – just look at the MiG-21 Bison to see what an underestimated fighter can turn out to be. The Sukhoi Su-30K was also found to be a poor aircraft when the IAF first evaluated it, and then after all sweat and toil put into getting its avionics in place and the thrust vector controls, the Su-30MKI is a completely different beast! I somehow fear that the JF-17 shouldn’t prove to be a fighter that makes the Fulcrums, Mirages, Bisons almost on-par or just a little superior. Which is why the IAF needs a true fourth generation fighter to stay ahead – both airframe wise as well as avionics wise."

Anonymous said...

Joe, the Su-30MKI is in no way the world's second best fighter. After the F-22, it would be the Eurofighter Typhoon and then the Rafale.

Anonymous said...

su-30 THE world 2nd best aircraft...(WTF)???.......MKI is no where close to even AESA equipped,supercruise Eurofighter,Hi-tech Rafale,F-15E,F-15k......list goes on......
LCA close to Euro fighter or Rafale???(it cant even fly let alone be compared to EF or Rafale!!!!IAF has not even ordered a single Tejas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fulcrums,Bisons better than JF-17(WTF!!!)interms of what????Jf-17 is claimed 2 b better than Block 15 F-16 and with French RC-400 radar and avionics it is sure to be a formidible fighter jet.
Please dont hide the facts and face the TRUTH.Dreaming wont take India anywhere.

Anonymous said...

Su30-MKI is comparable with F15-E Strike Eagle. There is no point bringing anything else in this project...
JF-17 is basically Chinese plane upgraded from old soviet era designs. For Pakistan, it may be good. But for India, we need something more advanced to counter China.
Tejas is almost technology absorption project for India. Whatever they do, it will be used for next upgradation. So, instead of useing RD-93 ( Which India assembles), HAL opting for something like EJ200 type engine, with full technology knowhow ( EADS even offerred India to make partnership in EJ200 MK3 project).Couple of technlogies used in Tejas are of 4.5 gen. So, if they complete this project, even with help of EADS and Boeing, it will be better for India. May be little late, but it will be good for India....

Anonymous said...

JF-17 had already in production.
LCA is still testing after 30 years!!!

Anonymous said...

Who say JF-17 is old soviet mig copies.
JF-17 wing is more similar to f16 fighters.

Anonymous said...

i think its a good one but HAL tejas is far more advanced than it. su-30mki is meant for chinese su-30mkk

Anonymous said...

perhaps u must take a look at IAF performance against RAF at waddington in 2007.

Anonymous said...

JF-17 Radom is big enough ... like Mirage III or F-16 ... it has a true Multi Mode Track While Scan Radar .. either Chinese or Italian both are Excellent .... thats what PAF operators say... How some one can say the Radom is small?????

Anonymous said...

L C A Will never fly in IAF !!!

Anonymous said...

PAF in 2015

F-16 C/D, A/B


Anonymous said...

No doubt j-f17 is one of the best aircraft in the world and it is far better in many disciplines as compare to f-16.It's a 4th generation aircraft. On the other hand the tejas are not developed completely and I.A.F authorities shows concerns on this project. At present the j-f17 has upper hand on tajes, until the tajes are not completely developed

Anonymous said...

No doubt that the j-f17 is far better in many disciplines as compare to f-16. It is fourth generation aircraft. On the other hand the tajes are not inducted in the indian air force and the high level authorities of indian air force shows concearns on this project.At present the j-f17 has upper hand on tajes until they are not inducted in indian airforce

Anonymous said...

Seems to be a Grande Latte Strategery discussion where everyone comes in after reading different pages from Wikipedia .... Better to have chottu do chai maar yaar

Danyal said...

After reading all posts here is my intake.
We are comparing apples and oranges. JF17 is not an air to air combat plane. It is multi role but cannot compete with f16s or f15s that is to say in dogfights. Now if you use it for ground assaults it will cause havoc. The JF 17 was mainly build to provide PAF a reasonable low cost fighter to replaces its aging fleet. BTW if JF17 is fitted with thrust vectoring it can become a great inceptor. As someone mentioned it that its an old 3rd gen design. Airframe design is not a problem as long as the plane can compete with modern planes. If you read the specs most features on the jf17 are 4th generation. The turn rate comparisons with the f16s prove that this jet is not a joke. Pakistan has made major improvements with this plane and its only the beg. not the end. So lets hope we build on it. As for Tejas let the fly first.....

Anonymous said...

Guys remember JF17 is in testing mode nowadays. Imagine the JF17 in five years. There is continous upgrades and development going on to that programe. I work on the project with the chinese. JF 17 in five years will be far more better than any aircraft in IAF arsenal.

Anonymous said...

Guys i dont have to do with Indo-Pak conterversy but i think it would be better to name Tejas as 'Flying Rikshaws'. Honestly rushes on net gave me the feeling that it was just like rikshaws. Lolzzzz

Anonymous said...

LCA has finished more than 300 flying hour and now weapon integration with the plane needs to be tested , naval variant has also takes the sky and limited production started and IAF has ordered 40 LCA.

Shahid Mahmood said...

Guys,I have no intention to indulge in bias to prove iaf tejas inferior.Ijust want to draw your attention how PAF and chinese aeronauticles worked together to multiply the A/Cs capability,surely Jf17 incoming years would be so superior that at present indians cant even think about it,as PAF mirages rose are about equal to iaf mirage 2000.either F104,or mirageIII or F.16,of PAF.chinese always enjoys PAF Generosity,and later this generosity resulted in the procurements for PAF.for example present F7PGs of PAF termed by iaf aschinese mig21,whie reality is that F7PGs are far superior then actual mig21.

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Anonymous said...

Doesnt matter when the tejas will be completed but as for now and many years to come IAF will KICK PAF's ASS royally coz we have money and we can buy stuff , we dont have to wait for an aid from america or some support from wicked chinese to survive

Anonymous said...

tejas is good plane ... but jf17 is to replace countries most airforce fleet its not a joke by the way its just initial batch trust first fifty will also be upgraded . klj7 is good radar
even design is fine even it became farnbourough's one of exclusive plane.

Anonymous said...

i hv nt seen tejas mk2 photos bt what i heard & read abt it, i cum to conclusion that tejas mk2 wil hv all features of 4.5th generation aircraft & it is far better than jf 17

Anonymous said...

The writer of this article compares between what IAF has in its inventory now to something what PAF will upgrade their aircraft or acquire somewhere in the future. For example, JF 17 block 2 and J10 and F16 upgrades??!! How about comparing what IAF will have in its inventories when PAF gets their dream fighters? By that, if it goes as planned, IAF will have MKI upgrades, LCA Mk2, dassualt Rafales, SU PAK-FA to quote a few.. Its always better to compare the present state of arsenals each opponent has with them. I can't hold a knife against you when you already hold a pistol and threaten you saying, "i'll also buy a pistol". I might buy a pistol oneday, but you might already have an automatic assault with you by then!!

dave said...

I've noticed that pakistan has an obsession with india and tries to match everything that india does. Militarily competing with india which is one of the biggest and upcoming economic giant in the world having an unlimited purchasing power!! Frankly i don't get the point. Shouldn't pakistan be better off concentrating on how its economy can be revived instead of depending on US aids?! Pakistan's general population will become stagnant just like afganistan without any economic progress even if it holds some hi-tech weaponries in its arsenal. Are pakistanis ready to sacrifice their countries economic progress so they could match militarily with india??

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Anonymous said...

Quite frankly beggars do not have choices!!! Pakistan has always lived off on freebies. India on the other hand has a stringent selection procedures in place. Only we know what Tejas LCA can do. How can it be compared J-17 a rip off specialists Chinese made out of MIG 21 configuration. We can understand the jubilation of Pakistan who have a fighter plane built by Chinese but have a Pakistan stamp on it for the first time in their life time.

Anonymous said...

it is clear to the world that PAK always had best in its arsenals but still fails to score a win in any conflicts. I extremely sorry for those Pakistanis who have been educated with Pakistani Text Books (where the history is created), who even do not know about their glorious losses. It does not matters, if you believe you can run over India then you must have done this to score 72 virgins (in heaven) in heaven and u r glories armed forces if ever have this capability then they would have done this a decade ago. Form Indian point of view we are waiting for you with u r so call beyond earth technologies.

Anonymous said...

Education system of Pakistan is full of hate about other religen, no its not Pakistan (land of pure ) it is now porkistan (body of evil )brain washed to kill others, I can't say birth rate, I will say production rate of baby's is high so they can go and kill others around the world as soon as they can run & hide coz of their stupid ideology, 72 virgins lol sex is what they will get after they die, porkies is what they now called in developed country, they r afried of saying county of origin in Europe.

Anonymous said...

India is turning into a cesspool of hatred, gang-rape and violence. The overpopulated country has millions of people fleeing to foreign lands as migrant refugees. They dont even have enough toilets and unfortunately women have to take dumps in public only to get gangraped in the middle of having a bowel movement (sick!). They are the poor mans burden and Asia and bring the entire region down. Indians lack any of their own culture and have been promoting ''foreign'' culture from the time of the Aryans till now. Furthermore they have such an inferiority complex and have problems with all their neighboors. Too bad india wasnt located seperately in the ocean as an island or in Africa somewhere away from the rest of cultured asia.

Anonymous said...

This is a chinese cum pakistani project which also has indulgence of various foriegn players. So as far as many people are concerned pakistan still does not have a good platform to develope their own completely indigenous warplane. While india has been able to develope this plane mostly or entirely by itself except for the engine and the I don't know about the radar systems. The main achievement of HAL is that it was able to develope the composite wing fibre material. Also the engine according to reports is undergoing some corrections and improvements and this will allow india to intergrate it into their future tejas planes and an even more improved engine for the AMCA. So the wait was basically to an extent worth it.

Anonymous said...





Anonymous said...

Pakistan is a cesspool of terrorism, hatred, gang-rape, minority-genocide and violence. The overpopulated country has millions of people fleeing to foreign lands as illegal migrants and refugees. They dont even have enough toilets and unfortunately women have to take dumps in public only to get gangraped in the middle of having a bowel movement. They are the poor mans burden and Asia and bring the entire region down. Indians lack any of their own culture and have been promoting ''foreign'' culture from the time of the Aryans till now. Furthermore they have such an inferiority complex and have problems with all their neighboors. Too bad Pakistan wasnt located seperately in the ocean as an island or in Africa somewhere away from the rest of cultured asia.

Anonymous said...

Worrying thoughts that stealing is higher quality then living a simple life. We can only see others as we can not see ourselves.

John said...

Dont live in dreams time has moved. JF 17 is in block3 now. Even block1 and 2 are better than your research first and everything can be loaded on JF17 not on any aircraft.

John said...

Dont live in dreams time has moved. JF 17 is in block3 now. Even block1 and 2 are better than your research first and everything can be loaded on JF17 not on any aircraft.

Anonymous said...

The JF17 is so advanced and useful that the Chinese Airforce doesnt want to induct it. :-)..Basically JF17 is a low cost jet fighter for countries like Pakistan that cannot buy more sophisticated aircraft.

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